Zhou Enlai: Comrade Le Duc Tho is. This is Comrade Le Thanh Nghi.
Mao Zedong: Both have the family name of Le!
Pham Van Dong: As Chairman Mao said, we conduct fighting while negotiating. But fighting should be conducted to a certain extent before negotiations can start. Sitting at the negotiating table does not mean [we] stop fighting. On the contrary, fighting must be fiercer. In that way, we can attain a higher position, adopt the voice of the victorious and strong, who knows how to fight to the end and knows that the enemy will fail eventually. This is our attitude. If we think otherwise, we will not win. In this connection, the South must fight fiercely, at the same time carry out the political struggle. At present, conditions in the South are very good. The convening of talks in Paris represents a new source of encouragement for our people in the South. They say that if the US fails in the North, they will definitely fail in the South.
Mao Zedong: Is it true that the American troops were happy when talks were announced?
Muoi Cuc[5]: I would like to tell you, Chairman Mao, that the Americans celebrate the news. Thousands of them gather to listen to radio coverage of the talks. When ordered to fight, some wrote on their hats: “I am soon going back home, please do not kill me.”
Saigon troops are very discouraged. Many of them openly oppose Thieu,[6] saying: “If Mr. Thieu wants to fight, just let him go to Khe Sanh and do it.” The morale of the Saigon troops and government officials is very low. Our people, cadres, and troops in the South are encouraged and determined to fight harder. We see that because we are strong, we can force the US to stop bombing the North. Therefore, [this] is the time we should fight more, thus defeating them. This is the common aspiration and spirit of our people, cadres, and troops in the South, Uncle Mao.
Mao Zedong: Is the number of American troops welcoming talks [and] wishing to go home big or small?
Muoi Cuc: Big. We will fight more, and at the same time, push the task of mobilizing the people and demoralizing the enemy.
Mao Zedong: That is good. I was told that the American troops have to stay in underground shelters. You also have to do so. How is it in the rainy season?
Muoi Cuc: We have to use water-proof cloth to cover [the soldiers].
Mao Zedong: How long is the rainy season?
Muoi Cuc: Six months each season, dry and rainy ones.
Mao Zedong: That long?
Muoi Cuc: But it rains most during three months.
Mao Zedong: Which months?
Muoi Cuc: May, June, and July.
Mao Zedong: Is it now the dry season?
Muoi Cuc: The end of rainy season and beginning of the dry one.
Pham Van Dong: Seasons are different in our country.
Mao Zedong: Seasons in the North are different from those in the South, aren’t they?
Muoi Cuc: Uncle Mao, this time, like before, we are summoned to the North to report the situation in the South and receive new directives from President Ho and the Political Bureau. Then, President Ho and our Central Committee asked Comrade Le Duc Anh and me to accompany Comrades Pham Van Dong and Le Thanh Nghi to China to report to Chairman Mao, Vice-Chairman Lin Biao, and other Chinese leaders about the situation in the South. The day before yesterday, through Prime Minister Zhou Enlai, we know that Chairman Mao praised us. We felt very encouraged.
Mao Zedong: We mentioned it here, in this room.
Muoi Cuc: We know that every time when a victory is gained, Chairman Mao sends us a letter of praise. This is really a great encouragement for our people, cadres, and troops in the South. Our victories gained in the South are due, to a great extent, to the assistance, as well as the encouragement, of the Chinese people and your [encouragement], Chairman Mao.
Mao Zedong: My part is very small.
Muoi Cuc: Very big, very important.
Mao Zedong: Mainly because of your efforts. Your country is unified, your Party is unified, your armed forces are unified, your people, regardless in the South or North, are unified, which is very good.
Muoi Cuc: We hold that the spiritual support offered by China is most important. Even in the most difficult situations, we have the great rear area of China supporting us, which allows us to fight for as long as it takes.
Material assistance is also very important. That we force the American troops into underground shelters [is] also because of pieces of artillery that China gave us.
Pham Van Dong: That is true.
Muoi Cuc: We even used Chinese weapons to attack Saigon. The enemy is frightened.
Mao Zedong: You seem to be receptive to the logic of weapons.
Pham Van Dong: It is true that we rely on Chinese weapons.
Muoi Cuc: We rely on the strength of our people, but without Chinese weapons, it will be more difficult.
Mao Zedong: Bare hands cannot do. There must be good weapons in [those] hands.
Muoi Cuc: As Uncle Mao said, we have to fight the enemy with guns and bags
of rice.
Mao Zedong: Maybe I am receptive to the logic of weapons, too.
Pham Van Dong: China has provided us large amounts of weaponry and rice.
Muoi Cuc: Our troops are very moved when they know that Chairman Mao pays attention even to their health. In addition to weapons, we receive from China rice [and] food so that our troops can be better fed, thus being stronger.
Mao Zedong: Have the supplies arrived?
Muoi Cuc: Some have. For example, egg powder, soybean, seasoning.
Pham Van Dong: Very good.
Mao Zedong: More supplies may be available. We have to thank Sihanouk too.
Pham Van Dong: We have considered his role.
Mao Zedong: Some road-fees are needed. It is worth spending for this.
Pham Van Dong: We estimate that this amount is even bigger than that of American aid.
Muoi Cuc: Before, the US gave Cambodia $20 million a year. Now, the amount China pays Sihanouk for rice and road-fees exceeds $20 million. In helping us, Sihanouk gains both good reputation and benefits.
Pham Van Dong: He also benefits from our defense of Cambodia’s eastern border with the South of Vietnam.
Muoi Cuc: Plus Chinese sympathy.